Mary Engel, an award-winning filmmaker, is the daughter of the great photographers Ruth Orkin and Morris Engel and the director and archivist of the Orkin/Engel Film and Photo Archive. Her first film Ruth Orkin: Frames of Life premiered at the Sundance Film Festival in 1996 and selected by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences as one of the “Outstanding Documentaries of 1996.” She is a co-producer on the remake of the feature film Little Fugitive, directed by her parents (1953). She has published three catalogues of photography: Ruth Orkin A Retrospective (1995), Morris Engel Early Work (1999) and Ruth Orkin Above and Beyond (1999). She also recently founded the American Photography Archives (APA) which is made up of over 200 archives, photographers, archivists and others in related fields.

Being a photographer is making
people look at what I want them to look at.

(Ruth Orkin)

leggi in italiano

You are the director of the Ruth Orkin Photo Archive. What are the goals of the Archive?

The goal of the archive is to keep Ruth Orkin’s photographs out there for the public and future generations to learn about her work. This is what I have been doing since she passed away in 1985. I continue to do as much as I can by adding unseen work to the website, using social media and licensing and promoting her work. I also spend time reaching out to museums to acquire her work either by sales or donations, so that her photographs are included in future shows.

This year marks the centenary of the birth of your mother Ruth Orkin (September 3, 1921 - January 16, 1985). How do you intend to celebrate this important anniversary?

I have been planning her centennial for a long time, and it is all coming together. In February 2021, we had a successful solo auction at Bonhams, this was the first event to celebrate her centennial. There are many solo and group exhibitions planned. Including a solo show at Fotografiska in NYC, an exhibition at Tanglewood Music Center in Massachusetts, and a show at the Stephen Bulger Gallery in Toronto. There will also be a new book published by Hatje Cantz in fall 2021, and a traveling show in Europe starting later this year. 

Your mother Ruth’s most celebrated image is An American Girl in Italy (1951); the girl is Jinx Allen (now known as Ninalee Craig), what can you tell me about this famous photo?

There is so much I could say about this photograph, it has certainly reached iconic status. Since the “me too” movement, it seems to be viewed somewhat differently by the younger generation.  However, it is important to remember that it was taken 70 years ago (August 1951) in Italy. It is one image from a photo series that Ruth was working on to earn money to stay in Europe. She met Ninalee Craig in Florence in the hotel they were both staying in. Ruth suggested that they go out and shoot photos about what their experiences had been as American woman traveling alone after the war. They walked around Florence, and Ninalee was walking down the street near the Piazza della Repubblica, and it just happened. There were only two frames shot, and Ruth told the man on the motorcycle to tell the men not to look at the camera. However, it was clear the men were looking at who they wanted to look at, and it was Ninalee. I always remind people the photo was taken by a woman, and it was a very productive time for both of them. They had a positive experience in Italy, and remembered it that way.  It was also the only time Ruth was in Europe and she took many of her best known images during that trip.   

Over the years she has photographed movie stars like Lauren Bacall, Ava Gardner, Woody Allen, Humphrey Bogart, Marlon Brando, Montgomery Clift, Alfred Hitchcock, Elia Kazan and the Italian director Vittorio De Sica. What was her opinion on Italian cinema? Which films and directors did your mother love the most?

Ruth loved film since she was young, and started taking photos of movie stars she occasionally ran into in Hollywood, and later she collected autographs.  As a teenager, she kept a book that included every movie she saw, and ranked it one to five stars. She loved one of her first jobs as the first female messenger girl at MGM studios in the early 1940s. She did see a variety of films including Italian films.  Some of her favorite films and directors were The Bicycle Thief  by Vittorio De Sica, Open City  by Roberto Rossellini and La Strada by Federico Fellini.  She watched French films as well such as Grand Illusion, Forbidden Games and English films such as Kind Hearts and Coronets, and Brief Encounter and Pygmalion. However, her favorite film was Citizen Kane. She met Orson Welles several times, photographed him in Venice at the Count de Beistegui Ball and corresponded with him. He wrote to her on Mercury Theater letterhead that said “I do hope you like Citizen Kane when you see it”.

Which important person your mother photographed did she become friends with?

Ruth became friends with many people she photographed. One of the most important was Julie Harris who was the star of the Broadway play Member of the Wedding. Ruth was shooting opening night for «LIFE Magazine», and stayed with the cast all night as they waited for reviews. She also shot the one-year Anniversary of the show the following year. I think a friendship like this happens because a photographer has been with someone during an important event for them, and in this case it was an award winning play.

I was extremely lucky and spent the afternoon with Julie Harris while she was doing The Gin Game with Charles Durning in the 1990s. She stayed in the theatre between the matinee and evening performance and invited me backstage to visit with her in her dressing room. We had an amazing visit, and I brought her many of the photos from that opening night many years ago, and she loved seeing them again! I stayed friends with her as well, and she ended up narrating the documentary I did on Ruth Ruth Orkin: Frames of Life. The short documentary was accepted into the Sundance Film Festival in 1996, which was a huge accomplishment and I was very proud of. Ruth also stayed friends with Leonard Bernstein and Isaac Stern who both spoke at her memorial, and Stern also played the violin in her memory.

Your mother along with Morris Engel, your father, directs two major independent feature films, Little Fugitive (1953) and Lovers and Lollipops (1955). In particular Little Fugitive (directed also by Ray Ashley) was nominated for an Academy Award for best motion picture story and winner of the Silver Lion at the Venice Film Festival. It is correct to say that this film influenced the French New Wave as credited by François Truffaut?

Yes, absolutely the accolades and the importance of Little Fugitive is amazing, and I could talk about it or write about it for days.  However, Truffaut was quoted during an interview with Lillian Ross who wrote for «The New Yorker» as saying that the «New Wave would never have come into being if it hadn’t been for the young American Morris Engel who showed us the way with his film, Little Fugitive». At the time during the 1950’s, Ruth felt like she did get overlooked for some of the credit for the film, and Morris’ name was mentioned more than hers.  He did have a more significant role, however, it was before the women’s movement in the 1970’s and it would have been interesting to see if she received more recognition at that time. Morris had also made a 35mm camera with another man, and people such as Jean Luc Godard wanted to borrow the camera along with others. The film also inspired many filmmakers today who I have met and become friends with including Andrew Davis, Ira Sachs and Todd Haynes.

In 2006 the remake (directed by Joanna Lipper) was released in cinemas: were you involved in this project as a co-producer?

I was more involved in pre-production than during the shooting and actual production of the film. There were many drafts, meetings, castings, workshops and location scouting I was involved with. However, I was not as included in the day-to-day shooting as I would have liked, even though it was such a small crew and production. There are a lot of strong aspects to the film, especially the cinematography and the young boy who played Joey was terrific. However, it was a darker story which I think was one of the issues, as it didn’t have the same compelling and happy ending that the original one did. However, Joanna Lipper worked very hard on it for many years. Andrew Davis who had made The Fugitive and later Holes had optioned it originally, and it would have been interesting to see what he would have done. However, maybe it is too hard to capture the charm from the original done in the 1950s.

You are also a director and you wrote, produced and directed Ruth Orkin: Frames of Life (1995) and Morris Engel: The Independent (2006). How was your relationship with your parents? What did it mean for you to be the daughter of two such important artists and make your documentaries about them?

I am very proud of both films, and so glad I was able to make them.  My relationship with my parents was very strong for most of my life.  However, my mother’s illness, was problematic, as she had cancer for 18 years.  Film and photography were always an important part of our family life, and the Academy Awards was the most important holiday for us.

Did your mother have other passions and interests besides photography and cinema?

Yes, definitely. She also loved music and travel, which she mentions in my documentary.  She went to Tanglewood and photographed all the musicians there during the summer, even though there was no job, because she had such a passion for music.  As a result, she has many iconic photographs of everyone who was there, including Serge Koussevitzky, Aaron Copland and especially the young Leonard Bernstein. Her love for travel led to her trip around Europe in 1951.

Her mother's was Mary Ruby, a silent film actress. What memories do you have of your grandmother?

My grandmother, who I am named after, outlived my mother, so I have fond memories of her. She was deaf when she turned 65, so there was a lot of lip reading and communicating by writing notes to one another. She was an amazing piano player, having been in vaudeville and taught me piano.  She also became a primitive painter of scenes from Central Park which I love, and had some shows and recognition in the press, and was compared to the painter, Grandma Moses. I also included a few clips from her silent movies in my documentary, Ruth Orkin: Frames of Life.

You are also the director of your father's archive, right?

Yes, he passed away in 2005, so it was natural that I handle his archive as well. I merged it into the Orkin/Engel Film and Photo Archive. I had been working fairly closely with him and his business dealings for the last 10 years of his life. I am very excited about the new box sets that were released this month by Kino Lorber in the U.S. and by Carlotta Films in France. They include all of the films, my two docs, short films, and commercials. Also, finally, I Need a Ride to California is being released after 50 years, it was made in 1968.

Your parents were great photographers: which of their shots are you most fond of and do you admire the most?

I feel lucky that they left me such amazing archives full of wonderful photographs. So, it isn’t hard to promote them. A few favorites are Comic Book Readers, Couple in MG and American Girl in Italy of course. My father has a photo called Boys with Boombox that has become a new favorite. It is exciting to continue the scanning project I am working on, which is to show unseen images from both of their archives. I’m finding lots of gems that way and sharing them on social media. 

A curiosity of mine: did your parents have the opportunity to meet the very young Stanely Kubrick when he was working at «Look magazine»?

Yes, they were very good friends with him.  I always recall my parents saying there was a secret oath between them, that whoever made the first X amount of dollars (not sure what the amount was) that they would share with one another. There are a few great letters between them which are on the engelphoto.com website.

Ordinary Miracles: The Photo League's New York (2011) directed by Daniel Allentuck, Nina Rosenblum and narrated by Campbell Scott, chronicles the life and times of the Photo League, a legendary organization of amateur and professional photographers that flourished in New York between 1936 and 1951. In this movie you are a contributing producer: both your mother and father were members of the Photo League. Can you explain better what the Photo League meant?

The Photo League was an important organization for young photographers in NYC who wanted to make an impact, and took photographs they felt had a social meaning. My father joined in 1938, and worked on various projects.  One was called Harlem Document, which my father did with Jack Manning, Harold Corsini and was led by Aaron Siskind who became my father’s mentor. There is a huge history to the league and its importance, and people should do more reserach on their own. Unfortuantely, it was shut down by the government in 1951, as it was accused of being a communist organization, which was devastating for all its members. My mother joined much later in 1947 to show support.

In conclusion. How are you experiencing this pandemic period, how much has it affected your work?

I have basically been working from home, and from March to July only felt safe going to the archive once a month. In August, it changed to once a week.I have been very productive as 2021 is Ruth’s centennial, so there is a lot I was planning, and much of it has come to fruition. As I mentioned, there will be solo shows at Fotografiska in NYC, Tanglewood Music Center in NYC, and at galleries, Stephen Bulger in Toronto, Canada, Photographs do Not Bend, in Dallas, Texas, as well as a travelling show organized by Di Chroma Photography, and a new book by Hatje Cantz.

The Orkin / Engel archives can be consulted online:

https://www.orkinphoto.com/

https://www.engelphoto.com/

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